Talk:James T. Kirk (alternate reality)
Kirk's Birthdate? In the prime universe, Kirk was born in Iowa on March 22, 2233. Kirk's birth in this timeline occurs in space, meaning that Nero had to have disrupted the timeline at a date earlier than March 22 in order for Kirk's birth location to have been moved. :Not necessarily. First of all, I don't think that we have a canonical source that original-timeline Kirk was born in Iowa (or for that date, I think). All we know is that he considered himself to be from Iowa. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, but I doubt that he considers himself to be from Panama. :Second, it's possible that the trauma of the encounter with Nero caused Winona Kirk to go into premature labor. Perhaps in the original timeline, the Kelvin went back to Earth, a heavily pregnant Winona beamed down to Iowa, and delivered little James there. We don't know either way. —Josiah Rowe 17:46, 9 May 2009 (UTC) ::According to the prime universe article, under "Ambiguities", it was canonically established in Star Trek IV that he was born in Iowa. :::Dialogue in Star Trek IV establishes only that Kirk considers himself to be "from Iowa." It does not canonically establish his place of birth. Colloquial English is ambiguous in this regard. Someone who spends their early life in a place may consider themselves to be "from" there regardless of their place of birth. ::Though there isn't any canonical source for Kirk's original birthdate, wouldn't his alternate universe birth still have to be earlier than the prime universe birth? I think that since we don't know his actual birthdate, the specific date should not be used on this article. Ctetc2007 19:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC) :::Ctetc2007's right. Kirk was born in Iowa according to the IAMD bio screen. So they must've been able to make it there from the Kelvin in the prime reality. We should only specify "2233.04" and not a month or day.--Tim Thomason 19:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC) ::Agreed. Another possibility is that the Kelvin delayed a possible course to Earth to investigate the storm, and that Kirk's day of birth was the same in both realities, just the location differed. This is speculative, of course, but it is just as likely as the premature labor scenario. -- Captain MKB 19:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC) Stardate In the new film, stardates are in the form yyyy.xx where yyyy is the Gregorian year. Since xx is two digits instead of three, it implies decimal fractions which would put Kirk's birth sometime between January 12th and 16th (inclusive). This would make him two months premature based on Kirk Prime's birthday of March 22. —MJBurrage(T• ) 13:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC) :According to the screenwriters, the new stardate system has YYYY the Gregorian year and the numbers after the point being the day of the year.Capt Christopher Donovan 04:36, 28 May 2009 (UTC) ::Except that it's missing a number to make it accurate. For instance, and this is discussed elsewhere, it could be the 40th day and he just dropped the third digit...so there's no way to prove one way or the other what day he was really born :) — Morder 04:54, 28 May 2009 (UTC) 16:30, June 17, 2013 (UTC) ::Actually see Talk:Stardate#Star Trek movie stardates as it's discussed there. — Morder 05:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC) :::So, 2233.04 is January 4, 2233? I guess that settles it. The question is in the original timeline was the USS Kelvin already docked at Earth and Kirk was in Iowa and born on the 4th, or did the stress/trauma of the attack cause an early delivery? 16:33, June 17, 2013 (UTC) Kirk's Rank At the conclusion of the movie, is there any on-screen source given for his rank of "Captain". They made a big deal earlier in the movie of Spock being called "Captain" when he was put in command, even as he held the rank of "Commander". Could Kirk have been given a lower rank ("Commander? Lt. Cmdr?) and still have been given command and title "Captain"? Were there any braids or rank insignia that I didn't catch that would make this perfectly clear? I suppose a battlefield promotion from cadet to captain isn't exactly impossible, but it strains plausibility. (Of course, all of the other cadets seemed to have the Enterprise as their now-permanent posting, so they must have been promoted also.) Jrp34 20:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC) :Seeing that the promotion at the end of the movie is not just a field promotion, and he's being given command of the flagship of the Federation, I think this is a promotion to the rank of "Captain". I do agree, it seems very far-fetched to be instantly promoted from Cadet to Captain just like that.Ctetc2007 20:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC) ::After the ceremony, Captain Kirk wore the same rank stripes that Pike had worn as captain -- makes it seem pretty official to me. At some point following her posting to the Enterprise, but before the ceremony, Cadet Uhura started being referred to as Lieutenant also, but her uniform had no sleeves to verify this. It seems like the battlefield losses made everyone get big promotions. -- Captain MKB 21:00, 9 May 2009 (UTC) :::To those that are familiar with Navy rank and privilege it is known that anyone that is in charge of a ship or boat carries the perfunctionary title of "Captain" While this is a real title of rank in all militaries (though it differs in stature between the land and sea services) anyone that is in command of ship is called Captain, whether an ensign JG or Lt Commander. Also, it would seem that in Star Fleet people are trained for specific purposes, Gold for command, Blue for science etc. Therefore, it might (and here I use the word might very loosely) that they train their people for specific purposes (being that a Starship is too complicated for a normal Human to master all the tools of the trade - Vulcans excluded of course) therefore, a person trained for command would take precedence over an engineer in that instance. And since by this time Kirk would have 3 years of training in command structure and tactics and how to command, versus making a science station or learning how to be a navigator, it might make sense that Captain Pike makes him the first officer, since an existing Captain may make any decision he sees fit to serve the ship. I would like to think that in the final scene Kirk was made "Captain" of Enterprise to shake her down vs true command, but in the end "It is a movie" and we must enjoy it as such. Image overload much? I can understand the hype and excitement of the new film, but does every section of this article need to feature an image from it? A good two or three articles about characters from the series have less images than this one together. J Di 20:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC) Commanding officers of the starships Enterprise The very bottom of this article has a box titled "Commanding officers of the starships Enterprise", with 22 names in it. Given that this page is an "(alternate reality)" page, I think that it is far too inclusive. It is my opinion that this box should not contain anyone later than Kirk, because we have no idea whether or not any of that will occur in the new timeline. I suspect that this is not the best page for discussions how to handle the new canon. Can someone please suggest a better place. Thanks. --Keeves 03:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :You can ask about it on the talk page for the Enterprise Commanding Officers template. Ctetc2007 06:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC) Main Image What happened to the picture of Kirk we had in the beginning when this article was created? Where you can actually see his face and not just him sitting there in the chair. That was really more appropriate for a page of this kind. – Distantlycharmed 19:26, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :Thank you. :D I like that Image, it's the first one of James T. Kirk (alternate reality) that I got. :D Roger Murtaugh 02:16, 11 May 2009 (UTC) ::Yeah, please get a better pic. This one is terrible.IT IS GREEN 04:35, November 14, 2009 (UTC) Removed I removed the following data: :The shuttlecraft Winona and the ''Kelvin s medical crew were directed to was "Medical Shuttle #37". Inferring from the TOS designation of shuttlecraft, being the mothership's designation followed by a slash and the shuttle's number (for example, NCC-1701's shuttle "Galileo" had the designation NCC-1701/7), its designation would be NCC-0514/37.'' Inference = speculation. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 20:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :And I removed the following paragraph: ::Although it is never mentioned or implied, Kirk most likely had already achieved the rank of Ensign, if not Lieutenant Junior Grade, prior to his initial time on board the Enterprise, under the commander of Captain Pike. Those who have taken the Kobayashi Maru test, usually have been recently commissioned as officers ''(Ensigns or Lieutenant Junior Grades). Most likely the latter (Lieutenant Junior Grade). As he was exceptional, and top in his class (2258), in survival strategies and tactical analysis. This type of ability would warrant the elevated ranking.'' :This seems like complete speculation to me. —Josiah Rowe 18:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC) I removed the following sentence, the last line in the Background section: :Ironically, this incarnation of Kirk is indeed "...from outer space," as Dr. Gillian Taylor asked jokingly in . I am not sure what it means, but it seems to be a sarcastic POV comment from someone who didn't like Pine. MoffRebusMy Talk 05:52, May 10, 2013 (UTC) Stepfather vs. Uncle When young Kirk steals the antique car, we actor Greg Grunberg's voice on the "car phone." Several articles specify this character as Kirk's stepfather, however, in scenes cut from the movie, it is his abusive, alcoholic uncle, Frank, not a stepfather. IMDB lists Grunberg's credit as "Stepdad," but that might be inaccurate. What takes precedence? -- 20:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC) :Actually, there is no uncle; there was only the step-father. The character was reported to be his uncle to hide the fact that Kirk's real father died in the movie. (It's also possible that Kirk's uncle became his step-father, but either way, they're both the same guy). --From Andoria with Love 02:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC) ::Please provide indisputable evidence that that is the case. If not, I will continue to change stepfather to uncle. :::Read the credits. — Morder 19:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC) :Also, if you continue to change stepfather to uncle, you will be blocked from editing. Just letting you know. --From Andoria with Love 22:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC) :::I added it to his talk page :) — Morder 22:50, 11 May 2009 (UTC) Removed from Academy Years The following information, AFAICT, was not included in the actual film, but comes from one of the online bios: :As a Starfleet Academy cadet, Kirk was top of his class in survival strategies and tactical analysis and the assistant instructor in advanced hand-to-hand combat. He was also Treasurer of Starfleet Academy's Xenolinguistics club. If the source is indeed the actual, finished film, then it can be put back in the article. -- 04:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC) "Appearances". Can we have an "Appearances" section? It may be 1 film, but it will soon be 2, and I think we should put the 1 film on there already, it just keeps everything up-to-date. Roger Murtaugh 07:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC) :There's really no need for a list of one. When a sequel comes out, we can add a list then.– Cleanse 10:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC) ::Really, especially because there is not "soon" to be two appearances. That is at least two years away itself. --OuroborosCobra talk 14:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC) Kirk's Medal in the new film I've not seen this mentioned anywhere, but I'm half-convinced that the medal Kirk is presented with at the end of the new film is a replica of one he had in the Original Series. Can anyone confirm or deny this? NFC-- 23:48, 28 May 2009 (UTC) : I'm not sure what medal you are referring to in TOS though I'm sure someone is. The one in the new film had a red ribbon, 6 triangles (with the point of the triangle facing downward)and then the main medal. I guess that's not as helpful as I had hoped, but maybe a little? Taking a look through Starfleet decorations I don't really see anything similar. Plus the movie doesn't state what he is decorated with, just that he is "awarded with this commendation".DhaliaUnsung 00:28, 29 May 2009 (UTC) in Star Trek 2:TWOK, Admiral Kirk tells Lt. Savik, "That I got a commendation for original thinking." Opening Quote I propose we use the quote... :"Is there a problem, officer?" ...for the opening quote. It identifies, to me, this Kirk as who he has become without his father. — Morder 04:45, 9 June 2009 (UTC) :I like "Four years? I'll do it in three." more. Speaks more to the character we saw for the vast majority of the movie. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:48, 9 June 2009 (UTC) I like that one too...but the other quote that keeps getting added isn't about the same kirk so we need something there. (That's one thing I hated - everyone was a genius in this movie) :) — Morder 04:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC) ::I agree with Cobra's quote suggestion- sums the character up well.--31dot 21:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC) :::It looks weird to see an article about James T. (freakin) Kirk without a quote from the film that defines him. It's a cool feature, and you don't need it for everybody, but I think Kirk really needs one. Anyone else agree? My votes are for: "Four years? I'll do it in three." Or, the easier, "Buckle up." (Joke suggestion: "You can whistle really loud.") ::::Couldn't we expand the explanation of the quote a bit more? To something like: James T. Kirk, vowing to become a Captain in the shortest time in Starfleet history". Right now, a reader who is unfamiliar with the movie will wonder: "Do what in three years?" – ''Crimsondawn''[[User Talk:Crimsondawn| Talk yuh talk]] 23:25, December 3, 2009 (UTC) The whole point is that the quote is memorable enough to be there. If it requires context it's not memorable. If they're not familiar with the movie then they'd be unfamiliar with the entire article - in which case it makes no sense to add context. — Morder (talk) 23:27, December 3, 2009 (UTC) And by the way that's the wrong context anyway, he was vowing to graduate in 3 not become captain. — Morder (talk) 23:30, December 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::Hmm. Initially I disagreed with you, but now that I think about it, what you are saying makes sense. The quote is meant to show the quintessential Kirk: driven to do what nobody ever did or thought could be done. What exactly that thing is is secondary. Am I right? – Crimsondawn[[User Talk:Crimsondawn| Talk yuh talk]] 23:32, December 3, 2009 (UTC) To me it has to be something that defines the character. The current quote signifies his drive to win at all costs which is his character. Whether or not it's the appropriate quote is up for discussion still. But currently that's where it stands. — Morder (talk) 23:35, December 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::I'm sold. Let it stay as is. – Crimsondawn[[User Talk:Crimsondawn| Talk yuh talk]] 23:38, December 3, 2009 (UTC) Quote section Couple of things- first, I think it's getting a bit long. Second, the sections headings seem arbitrary- is there precedent for such things here?--31dot 21:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC) :James T. Kirk. :) --From Andoria with Love 21:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC) ::I know that on episodes there is a suggested limit of 6 quotes, is there a suggestion for characters? It is getting out of hand here. -- 15:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Yeah I think We Really Need to pick the best lines from the movie sure there were some good ones but we need to pick out the ones that define James Kirk the best. John Sheppard – John Sheppard 21:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC) :I agree with Sheppard. Let's boil down the quotes to fan favorites, not just personal favorites. - Italianajt 18:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Sidebar image The old image appears in the sidebar (the previous one to the new version I uploaded) but when you click on the image you get the new version I uploaded. The image file's history says that no reversion was done. The image is File:James T. Kirk, alternate reality.jpg What's up? – Crimsondawn[[User Talk:Crimsondawn| Talk yuh talk]] 23:12, January 17, 2010 (UTC) :Image cache - the current image is one uploaded by Crimsondawn - just wait a while you'll see your image soon. — Morder (talk) 23:16, January 17, 2010 (UTC) PNA IS the PNA for just the background section? the entire article? or just left over from when this page was new? - 16:27, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :See this diff between the revision that added the PNA message and the current one. I think it's safe to remove for the moment. -- Cid Highwind 16:44, February 10, 2010 (UTC) Similarity with McCartney and Lennon I disagree with this info: :Orci and Kurtzman based Kirk and Spock's relationship on Paul McCartney and John Lennon, two very different musicians who bonded early in life, partly because they both lost a parent (in Kirk's case, his father, and in Spock's, his mother). 2 Lennon "lost" both his parents. I'm not so sure about Macca, but I know that to be true of Lennon! --Defiant 23:22, June 7, 2010 (UTC) :That's what they said in the source cited, so we go with that. :I don't see the problem with using that analogy even if Lennon lost two parents instead of one. The real point is like McCartney and Lennon, Spock and Kirk have something in common in the loss of parents. One or two doesn't really matter for the point of the comparison. – Cleanse ( talk | ) 07:36, June 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, but Lennon and McCartney had much more in common to bond them than the death of their parents. Actually Lennon only "lost" his mother. His father left the family when John was only a young child, and went on to become a waiter on deep sea cruise ships. He didn't see him until 1965, when he was already a multimillionaire pop star, and his father visited him to ask for some money. Some time after his father left the family, his mother gave John to his aunt, and basically he was raised by her. He didn't care much for his mother until he was in his teens. Then, the two started to get closer to each other (his mom taught John to play her ukulele, etc.), and then suddenly she died - she was hit by a drunk policeman's car (he was 16 at the time if I'm correct). So, actually it was quite a different story... In case of McCartney: he was raised in an average family (MUCH more average than Lennon's), raised by both parents and having two siblings. His mother died when he was 14 in cancer. I'm not much into editing the new (for me non-canon) Popcorn Trek movie, I just thought to clear things up a bit. --Ltarex 11:20, June 8, 2010 (CET) I've changed the paragraph to be closer to what the writers actually said, "suffered through the loss of a parent." I'd still equate Lennon's father disowning him as a pretty big loss but Lennon didn't kind of grieve his father's disappearance in the same way as he did with his mother's death. --Defiant 09:54, June 8, 2010 (UTC) Commendation for original thinking I have been listening to the audiobook's novelization of the movie. In the epilogue where Kirk reports to Pike to relived him of command of the Enterprise Pike gives him the commendation for original thinking in solving the Kobayashi Maru scenario. Should that be included? --Revan's Exile 15:14, July 14, 2010 (UTC) :i dont think that was ever mentioned in the film, but you are saying in was in the novelisation, so i think it would be aloowed, but in a different section. XNERZHULx 18:58, January 2, 2011 (UTC) isn't this the ribbon/medal he was given at the end of the movie? right before becoming Captain of the Enterprise? --Marc Chase 12:18, December 5, 2011 (UTC) Removed information (XII spoilers) Kirk did not die. He was put in stasis before that could happen, McCoy even claims something like "you were only half-dead" when Kirk wakes up. -- Cid Highwind (talk) 10:03, May 10, 2013 (UTC) The quote is "Oh, don't be so melodramatic. You were barely dead."--LauraCC (talk) 15:25, April 17, 2015 (UTC) Enemies Section I started to add an enemies section to the page but someone once said that nero as an adversary didn't need a section due to him being only one villian can we re-add the enemies section and add Khan / John Harrison to the list? Jkirk8907 (talk) 23:59, May 14, 2013 (UTC)JKirk8907 :If you do, there may be some characters from the IDW comics who qualify as well.--LauraCC (talk) 15:27, April 17, 2015 (UTC) :As well as Gorn? --LauraCC (talk) 16:10, April 17, 2015 (UTC) Sidebar Picture When the film is released on Home Media will the top image be changed to a picture of him from 2260 at the end of the film? Matt Seay (talk) 04:21, May 19, 2013 (UTC) Kirk's speech Should Kirk's speech at the end of Into Darkness be considered a memorable quote within his Page or should stay it stay deleted and only be considered memorable in the Star Trek into Darkness Page? Jkirk8907 (talk) 15:32, January 7, 2014 (UTC) :See MA:QUOTE. Then ask yourself if a speech is short. Also, While we're on the subject, I don't think most of the quotes currently on the page should be there, since most seem to require further context to be "memorable". - 08:45, January 8, 2014 (UTC) I did consult the MA Quote and i gotta tell you, that speech he says at the end of the movie does count as memorable. I also looked at some other Characters pages and they have speeches that were about the same length as this one and i think if they'll allowed to keep those speeches as quotes then so should that one. Jkirk8907 (talk) 02:43, January 10, 2014 (UTC) ::Firstly it's not as much as it being memorable as to the length of it. "Short quotes. Keep them short and sweet. If it needs to be a full scene, or you feel the quote needs context, the quote is not exactly memorable." Secondly just because it has happened in another Characters page doesn't mean it should happen here. The articles quotes sections are filled with over sized quotes that should be removed but many people just keep adding in more and more. The quotes section should be only have about 6 quotes per article. -- 03:37, January 10, 2014 (UTC) Death Since McCoy only considered Kirk "semi dead" do we need the year of death? or can we remove it? Jkirk8907 (talk) 13:04, January 10, 2014 (UTC) :If he was revived, he didn't die. Removing it. 31dot (talk) 21:02, January 10, 2014 (UTC) ::So Hoshi Sato, Charles Tucker III, Leonard McCoy, Montgomery Scott, Leslie, Galloway, Spock, Worf, Deanna Troi, Harry Kim, Tom Paris, Neelix, etc. are all exceptions then? "Semi dead" is still dead in this case, even though it didn't stick. - 23:00, January 10, 2014 (UTC) :I would humbly suggest that dead should mean dead and gone and that we should consider coming up with some other way to describe being revived- but I won't go into that here or at this moment. 31dot (talk) 00:22, January 11, 2014 (UTC) :::Perhaps add a section for 'near-death experiences' under which only ones where one's heart is presumed to have stopped qualify? --LauraCC (talk) 15:28, April 17, 2015 (UTC) Demotion after watching Into Darkness again I noticed that Kirk still had 4 pips on his shoulder after he was demoted (as he and Spock enter the briefing room, right before Khan kills Pike) so was he really demoted or was he just removed from command? (IE: Rank: Captain, Position: 1st Officer) or was it just a costume error in the movie? 09:28, March 23, 2014 (UTC) :In the future, plot questions should be asked at the Reference Desk as article talk pages are for discussing article changes; He asked Spock to call him Commander so he was demoted in rank as well; perhaps he didn't have time to change his pips. 31dot (talk) 09:46, March 23, 2014 (UTC) Removed I've removed the following from this article: "When questioned, Roberto Orci expressed difficulty in balancing the 1960s origins of the character, 21st century attitudes and those of an imaginary 23rd century in writing the character's sexual attitudes. http://www.nerdist.com/pepisode/humans-from-earth-2-bob-orci/" The way this is written seems quite damning. Also, I've tried several times to access the link, to see if the note could be rewritten or at least clarified, and the link doesn't work for me; the information doesn't seem to be available any more. --Defiant (talk) 14:39, July 21, 2016 (UTC) :The mp3 seems to have gone by the way of the dodo unfortunately, but I've found some transcribed bits and . -- sulfur (talk) 15:30, July 21, 2016 (UTC) Kirks Brother Under siblings should we put George Samual Kirk since he is an older brother and exists in both timelines. :It is not known to what extent the events surrounding the creation of the alternate reality may have rippled backwards and altered the past. His brother is only said to exist in the Kelvinverse in comics. --LauraCC (talk) 15:53, December 11, 2018 (UTC) ::Forget all the fake science nonsense, when was GSK said to be the elder brother? - (on an unsecure connection) 18:16, December 21, 2018 (UTC) I thought it was said in the episode. -- 18:54, December 21, 2018 (UTC)